Upcoming Elemental Shaman Changes

by Zuuz | 26/09/2007 18:05:33

Zuuz

Eyonix said in the Enhancement Thread ( Enhancement shaman - Low blow ) he'd hop into an elemental shaman thread to post upcoming changes.

Here's an elemental shaman thread. Thanks in advance Eyonix :)


(In all seriousness though, thanks for all the information you're providing us E, it's appreciated).

by Eyonix | 26/09/2007 22:18:55

Eyonix

We have a few changes currently locked down for patch 2.3 that the elemental shaman should find beneficial. Being a level 70 elemental shaman myself, I'm particularly excited as currently I feel the class is in good shape, but in need of a few minor tweaks. I'd say the one I'm most pleased with (especially after seeing the results of change on an internal build) concerns lightning overload. When 2.3 launches it will have a 4/8/12/16/20% chance to occur, though the additional spell will cause half damage, still ending up being a noticeable increase to overall dps,.

Also, the additional spell will cause no threat whatsoever.

Though the following two changes have the potential to benefit all shaman, elemental and restoration shaman will likely benefit the most. The first change regards the mana spring totem. Previously it restored 12 mana every two seconds at maximum rank, for your entire party. As of patch 2.3 it will restore your groups mana by 20 every 2 seconds.

This equates to 50mana/5 for each member of your party without the talent points in restorative totems.

The second change impacts water shield. This spell will no longer cost any mana to cast (which also means the five-minute rule will not be affected) and the mana granted per globe has been substantially increased. Additionally, the spells duration has been shortened to one minute and at the end of its duration it now grants mana for any remaining globes.

Elemental Focus will now reduce the mana cost of the next two damage spells by 40%. Now before theorycrafting begins, this is actually a buff except in cases where your chance to land a critical strike with spells was extremely high.

Though I mentioned this in an enhancement shaman thread, for those who missed it, I'll reiterate -- Frostshock will no longer be subject to diminishing returns which I'm sure players will find useful, especially in pvp.

Lastly, we are making a change that will cause a reduction in dps, however, the elemental shamans overall dps will still be improving with the change that we're making to lightning overload. We're reducing the casting time of Lightning Bolt to 2.5 seconds (from 3 seconds), and chain lightning to 2.0 (from 2.5 seconds), causing benefit from spell damage to be reduced appropriately. The mana cost for these two spells are being lowered as well.

The lightning mastery talent's cast time will now be reduced by .1/.2/.3/.4/.5 seconds. So, casting time for the spells ends up being the same as before.

Keep in mind, some of what's listed above could change once the patch has received testing on the public test realms, and your feedback is always welcome.

by Eyonix | 26/09/2007 22:35:55

Eyonix


Q u o t e:
Eyonix, what about Passive pushback resistance while casting Lightning spells? Eye of the Storm doesn't cut it when you're soloing (mobs don't crit you often enough for it to be beneficial) and it makes Elemental grinding absolutely horrendous.

Other then that, I loved the changes you outlined. Sorry to nitpick :3

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to start farming Honor for my Elemental set.


We're watching the situation closely, but nothing is planned just yet. When elemental farming I tend to throw down a searing totem and use flametongue weapon (well, I pretty much always use this weapon buff as elemental). Since both take advantage of elemental fury and scale with spell damage and spell crit, I tend to take them down fairly quickly, shocking every time my cooldown is up. Also, what's nice about flametongue weapon is that it ignores weapon speed when calculating the gain from spell damage, so finding the fastest possible weapon can help too.

by Eyonix | 26/09/2007 22:38:31

Eyonix


Q u o t e:


being that there is no pushback prevention to shaman spells (other than eye of the storm), that is a pretty bad PVP nerf :(


Am I misunderstanding something, or are you? The casting time stays the same. Let me know if I'm missing your point.

by Eyonix | 26/09/2007 22:44:53

Eyonix


Q u o t e:


No wonder you dont get why any int/mp5 on enhancement tiered sets is wasted stats that could be budgeted towards increasing dps ;)


don't worry this is my only post here, GL elementals hope you guys get some good news in this thread!




Lets not change the focus of this thread, but to clarify, though I've already made a follow-up explaining that I wasn't stating those were by any means "good" enhancement stats, but rather discussing with a player that in my personal opinion and in my experience those stats are better than spirit and spell crit.
Also, you may not fully understand statification and item budgeting. Those values would convert to an extreme minimal amount of enhancement preferred stats.

I've played all shaman specs pre and post burning crusade, and was not just enhancement for leveling.

by Eyonix | 26/09/2007 22:49:44

Eyonix


Q u o t e:
that's a good point zuuz that several people are missing already

This is a buff to non elemental shamans using LB or CL.


but its a nerf to our primary dps casts as elemental spec. Same casting time, less mana cost, less dmg.


Let's hope the large buff to lightning overload makes up the difference. Its an interesting way to reduce our threat generation, ill give eyonix that ; - )


Internal testing thus far has proved that the coefficient loss from your lightning bolt with five points in the new lightning overload results in an overall dps increase. And yeah, a larger portion of your dps being threatless should help. We'll be watching the changes closely as the hit the public test realms.

by Eyonix | 26/09/2007 22:53:55

Eyonix


Q u o t e:


This makes me very very happy, no matter what spec this is awesome!! How will the Relic affecting the amount of mana returned effect the Spell? Will it be buffed as well or does it remain at 12 mana per globe?



How does this stack with the New Enhancement Talent? Will it reduce the cost of the next shock by 100%(additive), 84% Reduction (multiplicative), or will it take the greater of the two values?

Also the 'nerf' to LB and CL via reduced casting times isn't really to bad sounding, as it allows any shaman to throw bolts out semi reliably. Sure we lose a little spell damage (14% of bonus damage on LB and CL).

All of the changes make my prefered build one of the best Shaman DPS builds ever so I am a very happy Blueberry. (19/42/0)


We're increasing the additional mana granted by water shield for both the Tidefury Raiment and the Totem of the Thunderhead.

"How does this stack with the New Enhancement Talent? Will it reduce the cost of the next shock by 100%(additive), 84% Reduction (multiplicative), or will it take the greater of the two values?"

Good question, I'll have to find out.

by Eyonix | 26/09/2007 23:00:31

Eyonix


Q u o t e:


this however doesnt make sense to me, so you actually benefit less from this the more crit you get? shouldnt it be the other way around?




I'm not talking above average spell crit, I'm talking extremely high spell crit. Basically, players who had a "more than respectable" spell crit rating were never running out of mana, while those who were lower were suffering.

by Eyonix | 26/09/2007 23:03:12

Eyonix


Q u o t e:


i agree

we are looking for a talent like Healing Focus in the resto tree its virtually impossible to cast any offensive spell unless you get crit...now in PvP we carry resilience and that lowers our chance to be critically struck...making this talent useless. it also doesn't work against spell crits... ice lance/warlock pets can hold us down easily in the same fashion.

also elemental shields talent adds to the problem.


I know this may seem like "fluff", but honestly we're watching the elemental shaman closely. Any improvements need to be inched forward slowly.

by Eyonix | 26/09/2007 23:06:04

Eyonix


Q u o t e:
Why do you keep ignoring people talking about spell pushback?

Why cant you just throw a 41 point ele talent that gave a 50% chance to ignore spell pushback.

We lose nature swiftness and gain spell casting viability in PVP not farming elementals.

Its offensive to reply to a spell pushback concern with how you farm elementals with flametongue weapon.


I'm not ignoring anyone, and have commented on the issue. We're not convinced currently that the shaman needs an anti-interruption. Does not mean it won't happen, we just don't want to make a hasty decision on such a matter.

by Eyonix | 26/09/2007 23:08:56

Eyonix


Q u o t e:
Thanks a ton, Eyonix. These are all very surprising actually. If anyone cannot see how these are huge buffs to mana efficiency and threat in PVE, then you are being pigheaed.

The change to Lightning Bolt cast time is very interesting. Definatly a buff for 2/3 trees and not really much of a change to us now that Lightning Overload will become a must have elemental talent which seems appropriate.

As an elemental shaman, what is your take on these changes for pvp, Eyonix? I'm really curious to hear how you think this might effect it.


Well, to be very honest, I'm fairly new to arenas with this character. I'm certainly excited for the changes in regards to raiding. I'm going to continue to get more practice in on the arenas between now and 2.3 so I'll have a better personal gauge. I see potential though.

by Eyonix | 26/09/2007 23:10:47

Eyonix


Q u o t e:


So Eyonix,

How much crit are we looking at to actually have this talent usefull.

They way I stand now, I'm well over 43% crit raid buffed.

From what the talent is now, it looks like I have to drop 10% crit in order for this talent to even be viable?

The talent alone has been changed, and it's being changed yet again.

If mana was an issue I'd stack even more crit, and even with the crit that I have now raiding, I still go out of mana.

Could they bump the reduced cost to 50% even, hell i'd take that.

Granted, yes I can focus on more +dmg to get more bang for the buck, but that means I have to reitemize alot of the gear that I currently have, and given my options late in game, It's going to be quite a hassle to change.

My only other concern, would be regarding Spell Pushback.

Are we ever going to get anything for this? I can literally say almost every class that is a caster has spell push, why not us after so long?

Other than that, I honestly cant complain to much about the Shaman class in general as an elemental shaman, although CC is being looked into, which i'm looking forward to seeing.

Thanks


Don't know the numbers off-hand -- I'm off ttoday, so it's more difficult for me to get information, unfortunately. Also, keep in mind these numbers could very well change once the patch has hit the public test realm.

by Eyonix | 26/09/2007 23:12:53

Eyonix


Q u o t e:
Great changes, definately going to repickup lightning overload again.


I also would like to push for changes to totem of wrath, and a passive anti-lightning bolt pushback. If there is no lightning bolt pushback, I recommend that lightning bolt gains a 2 second base cast.

Also, any word on the supposed heroism nerf? I'd rather bite the bullet now then see the patch notes later.


No plans to nerf heroism. For the record, where I come from we call it bloodlust. :P

by Eyonix | 26/09/2007 23:16:13

Eyonix


Q u o t e:


Curse of tounges, kick, pummel, and throw in every form of cc and other interupt i dont have to list them.

Then add that we have none of them.

Now explain to me your reasoning. When our casts are 2 seconds long, 4 seconds with curse of tongues.

Do you honestly think we dont need spell pushback help? Do you pvp?

Also do you realize there are about 10000/1 ratio of shaman on higher rated pvp teams with 41 points into ele. Why not make a useful 41 point talent or is it meant to be PVE based.


I'm giving you information in advance. You'll have plenty of time to provide your feedback, especially once the patch hits the public test realms. Just hang in there, I've not made claims that anti-interuption is needed, nor have I that it's not needed. We're simply keeping a close eye on the situation for now.

by Eyonix | 26/09/2007 23:20:51

Eyonix


Q u o t e:
Ok so we have fixed a few of the mana issues involved with the class, but now you have cut a HUGE level of top end damage off of a shaman... Effectivly you are removing our ability to burst damage and have replaced it with nothing... I enjoy pvp... I like pve more, but now I have no effective burst to push enemies off of me to make them fall back and try and heal..

Going from a 3second spell to a 2.5 drops a huge ammount of top end crit... This is terrable you have me more then worried with this news E

The change to LO although nice with being 20% being half damage is going to be like a 750-1750 damage hit instead of being a 1.5k- 3k extra hit... We allready know how much ENH PRAYS for a 20% proc... I cast 1/3 as many spells in pvp im sure as an enh shaman hits.. once again this is not good news to me being a casting damage dealer.. I now have decent long term damage but no burst...

With changes like this Elemental Mastery needs boost my top end crit spell to a 3sec status so I can at least have one full burst 100% crit spell and then let me fall off to the long low ammount of damage..

Good game design works like this... If you take something away from the player you give it back to them in another form.. You took away our top end damage... we got long term damage in LO? Currently im not seeing the bennefits of these changes yet. Especially on the PVP side of the tracks. PVE im in the middle they seem nice, over all not greatly impressed by the sound of these changes...


I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk, I promise. I understand your concerns. But please understand that these are the planned changes, and quite a bit can happen between now and when the patch is pushed to live realms. Quite a bit of effort went into being able to release this information earlier than we'd normally reveal upcoming change.

by Eyonix | 26/09/2007 23:23:13

Eyonix


Q u o t e:


While im happy to see an actual post here... It concerns me that the devs still dont recognize the main pvp problem with shaman in having no CC, few ways out of CC, and having no way to avoid being interupted from both melee or spells (minus grounding totem or eye of storm...and eye of storm doesnt make you immune to CoT or CS or pummels).


If we give shaman a cc abillity it won't be until Wrath of the Lich King.

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