Line between legit feedback and bandwagons
by Voices | 12/03/2008 01:01:44
I felt I should mention a few things. If you want your voices heard, then contribute to the ongoing feedback about hunter problems. What that means is either post your proof, or your experiances. Explain what exactly it is about your hunter in X situation that feels so full of fail. Describe in detail encounters that you feel were one-sided because of X problem with the hunter class. If you have the inclination, back your claims with mathmatical proof. A lot of you are doing EXACTLY the wrong thing to get yourselves heard. For example, these numbers that everyone has become so fond of quoting are based on what Blizzard expected the percentages to be at a certain level in arena... What they do not reflect is the actual comparison of the number of hunters, as compared to other classes. Meaning although these percentages are low, Blizzards estimate could have also been a somewhat higher number due to the popularity of the class. The above signature's are rediculous, they were just a few I plucked out while browseing the forums. All you are doing is parroting the same thing, and parroting it so much that it has simply lost any meaning. You speak of MegaTF as if blizzard has perma-banned him for daring to speak out. Hell, actually you speak of him as if blizzards elite team of urban commandoes came into his house and sent him to a Blizzard Hunter Re-Education camp. Do you know what stirring this up is doing? Nothing. it helps nothing. Blizzard will not 'suddenly start listening' if you repeat the same thing over and over again. They ARE listening, they just aren't responding, and I am betting it is at least partially because any kind of response reguarding your class, at this moment, would just feed the flames of idiocy blazing rampant throughout these forums. My plea is this: Calm down, RATIONALIZE your problems with the hunter class, quit repeating the same trite phrases over and over. Blizzard is not 'out to get hunters' They are trying to balance things, but if the primary feedback they are getting from the community is the same meaningless foolishness repeated over and over, then there is a pretty good chance the truly meaningful posts may be lost or go unnoticed because of the flood of foolishness. |
by Timbal | 12/03/2008 01:32:21
Will you please explain the logic behind this? |
by Timbal | 12/03/2008 01:50:56
If anyone received a forum suspension, it was in direct correlation with the rules set forth in the Code of Conduct.
This is exactly the point. It's a disingenuous statement, whether metaphorical or argumentative. It does little to serve the Hunter community. Going out of one's way to violate the Code of Conduct in protest of perceived class balance issues attracts the likes of me, a forum moderator. Will I go out of my way to silence legitimate dialog? No. Will legitimate dialog be lost in a frenzy of inappropriate posts made out of protest? Potentially. |
by Timbal | 12/03/2008 01:54:40
If it was not already stated by Drysc, the inappropriate category was chosen when the suspension was issued. I apologize on behalf of the moderation staff for the confusion this mistaken choice of category caused. It does happen. |
by Timbal | 12/03/2008 02:01:22
The druid to whom you're referring offered up some helpful insight for generating useful discussion instead of empty protest mantras. You're now trying to discount that by pulling out arbitrary numbers entirely unrelated to the points brought up in this thread. Again, where is the logic in that? What's more, the original post of this thread was reported. It's been iterated many times -- including in this thread -- that any helpful feedback is silenced. Are we, as moderators, to assume that the feedback brought forth in the original post is not helfpul, and therefore deemed to be worthy of moderation? There seems to be a double-standard here. |
by Timbal | 12/03/2008 02:08:27
We didn't mean to wipe out the guides. The fact of the matter is though, that many of the players who were contributing to the protest spam on Sunday had their post histories wiped. It's unfortunate, but still a part of the process for moderating such protests. I do apologize for the circumstances which led to the deletion of the threads to which you're referring. |
by Timbal | 12/03/2008 02:16:25
In a sense, you are correct. There have, however, been a lot of threads generated lately regarding the moderation techniques used on this forum. I chimed into this thread hoping to alleviate some of the mystery behind these techniques. Please understand that I am not a Community Manager, and not responsible for opening a dialog with players regarding class balance. For those asking direct questions pertaining to the concerns of the Hunter community here, I only ask that you ensure your constructive concerns are represented elsewhere on this forum. |
by Timbal | 12/03/2008 02:25:30
I understand that this is a predominant concern within the Hunter community right now. Honestly, I'm unable to provide you with a good answer. I have not seen the threads to which you are referring here, and have no way to see them now that they're deleted. I have done my best to ensure that moderation only takes place when necessary, and that players are not made to feel that they cannot discuss real concerns in relation to their game play experiences. Of course, I'm not the only one moderating these boards. I do not mean to try and exonerate myself of responsibility either. I believe all of the moderators have the best intentions in mind when cleaning up the boards. We must make some pretty important decisions on the fly while moderating well over 300 forums between worldofwarcraft.com and battle.net. I will simply say that it is regrettable that helpful and constructive posts were lost in the fray, and for that I apologize. If Hunters will do what is within your power to keep your concerns voiced in a constructive manner, we will do what we can to ensure your concerns are heard and clearly represented. |
by Timbal | 12/03/2008 02:36:06
I didn't say no Hunter has been constructive. Under what precedent do you assert that your voices are not being heard?
No, though I am unaware of the full circumstances behind the overall moderation techniques at the time that thread was removed. I'm sorry I don't have a more conclusive answer for you. |
by Timbal | 12/03/2008 02:59:21
This is a much more legitimate and accurate way to voice the reasons for your concern: because you have no reason to know whether or not your voices are truly being heard. That is why I was asking for clarification. It is not appropriate for me to further discuss the concerns being posed by this community, so I will concede that every member of the World of Warcraft community has a reason to be concerned about the way in which classes are tuned. With this being said, I do believe that Kalgan's release of the statistical data reflecting class representation in certain score brackets of the Arena is a means of showing which classes potentially need attention. |
by Timbal | 12/03/2008 03:13:47
If you think there weren't a plethora of bans being handed out on the forums to members of each class who fell into spam-protests recently, you're simply misinformed. Many of those protests -- as well as the reactions of each specific community to our moderation techniques -- were very similar to the way in which things have transpired on this forum since Sunday. |
by Timbal | 12/03/2008 04:30:59
Please do not compare your frustrations over class balance in a video game -- and the way in which Blizzard moderates its private, subscription-based forums -- to historical transgressions of protest in the face of true, life-threatening oppression. It's offensive. |
by Timbal | 12/03/2008 04:38:25
I believe what I've said in this thread to be true. You can call me a fool, but not a liar. |
by Timbal | 12/03/2008 06:18:02
Given the work load of the moderation staff, the nuke function is one of the single most effective tools we have for cleaning up the forums when a particular account is used to post multitudes of inappropriate, malicious, or spam comments. In order to prevent this type of situation going forward, we are working to ensure that nuking an account's posting history does not remove any sticky threads of which the account holder was the original poster. |
by Timbal | 12/03/2008 06:37:38
I do not deny that this is an issue. As the forum moderators are almost always working through a back log of reports and emails, players typically find a delay in the posting of stickies, if such stickies are created at all. When threads on the class forums are reported via the Biohazard symbol for sticky, that information is collected and forwarded onto the Community Managers to determine whether or not a thread should be made into a sticky. They have the final say; although, I can concede that we can be quicker to deliver the threads folks on all of the class forums request for sticky. |
by Timbal | 12/03/2008 06:49:00
+1 mind blown |
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