Lower than vanilla wow tank threat.

Crusader strike needs to be holy damage if it's to be used in our rotation. Redo reckoning to transform all attacks into holy damage. To be able t ogetthis, merge vindication and judgments of the just into 1 talent. There isn't any need to have 2 talents to give 2 buffs to one judgment. It feels like bloat, they're not interesting talents.

Hammer of the righteous has been nerfed into oblivion and needs to have it's threat modifier quadroupled, you just plain go back to tthe 4x weapon dps. 160% of weapon damage on an 8 second cool down is horrible.

And get rid of holy power for protection. You're penalizing us with our holy shield, we don't have interupts or spell reflects and now our block is equal to or currently less than warrior blocking, our block needs to be passive and our other abilities should to be activated.

We're just not generating any threat at all...I've been a fan of every protection change in the game since you started making prot paladins viable. This is the first time I've actually talked with my geeky friends about not wanting to tank in the next expansion. Please, something drastic needs to be done.

edit: this thread has changed from the original post, it is 7+ pages of holy shield upkeep as a penalty to tanking instead of a bonus.

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Q u o t e:
As it is now, it's worthless. If you like keeping Holy Shield up, there is zero chance of using Word of Glory. The heal for Word of Glory is still insanely gimpy, even with the buff, so it's unlikely that it will be used. It's still impossible to keep Holy Shield up with great consistency.

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I'd buy that if Holy Shield gave you 20% damage reduction or something, but it's 15% block -- at best. You won't even really know if you would have blocked that hit had Holy Shield been up and you could easily keep Holy Shield up and still fail to block. Because it's not 100% dependable, letting it lapse sometimes shouldn't be the end of the world. Sometimes it might make sense to delay that block and heal yourself.

As far as rotations go, something I mentioned in the live forums is we are trying letting Shield of the Righteous (or whatever we decide to call it) consume Holy Power for more damage *and* refresh Holy Shield. So you would need to get Holy Shield up, but then you could just use your shield hits instead. If you were ever in a position where you couldn't hit the boss, you could always fall back on just casting Holy Shield itself. We'll see how that feels.

Here is how Prot paladins are working in our current beta build. You might not see these changes in the next beta build, but in the one after that. Things are still in a high degree of flux however.

Shield of the Righteous -- Now consumes Holy Power to cause damage.

Holy Shield -- Now a passive ability that causes your Shield of the Righteous to provide 5% block per stack of Holy Power consumed. In other words, you never click Holy Shield. You just click Shield of the Righteous and buff yourself.

Hammer of the Righteous -- Now generates Holy Power but shares a cooldown with Crusader Strike. Almost all talents that affect one or the other will affect both. The intention is you use Crusader Strike -> Shield of the Righteous for single target and Hammer of the Righteous -> Shield of the Righteous for multitarget.

Avenger's Shield -- No real change, but it still hits pretty hard. Both CS and HotR can proc Grand Crusader to lower the Avenger's Shield cooldown.

Vindication -- can be caused only by Crusader Strike or Hammer of the Righteous.

Holy Wrath -- With the above changes, we think Prot paladins have enough rotational buttons to hit, so we are downplaying Holy Wrath. Holy Wrath is really intended as a Ret filler spell (for when other attacks are on cooldown). Prot could technically use Holy Wrath, but we aren't providing any talent hooks.

Consecration -- Now on a 10 sec duration with a 30 sec cooldown. The Hallowed Ground talent makes it cheaper and hit harder -- it does not affect duration. Use Consecration when you need it, but you can't spam it. This is consistent with the AE changes we are making to all tanks.

With these changes in mind, Prot will be thinking about buttons such as these:

Single Target: Judgement, Crusader Strike, Shield of the Righteous, Avenger's Shield.
Multi-target: Judgement, Consecration, Hammer of the Righteous, Shield of the Righteous, Avenger's Shield, possibly Holy Wrath.

None of this includes things like Seals, Inquisition, defensive cooldowns, Word of Glory, etc.

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Q u o t e:
So with Vindication off of Holy Wrath, is it intended that Prot Paladins are the only tank without an AoE Physical Damage debuff, or will similar changes be made to the Warrior/Druid/DK mechanics?

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Hammer of the Righteous will be AoE enough. It hits many targets. It may not be as widespread as Demo Shout on a pull like a jillion Onyxia Whelps, but we don't really expect you to debuff pulls of that size.

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Q u o t e:
I am very much liking this Shield of the Righteous (surely you mean Shield of Righteousness?) + Holy Shield. Let me just clarify something - Hammer of the Righteous will generate 1 Holy Power per cast, or 1 Holy Power per target hit? I strongly assume the former, but it's better to make things clear.

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One per cast. Otherwise we think paladins might want to always be hitting multiple targets, like "Let me tank the boss and one of the adds or my Holy Power generation will be low."

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Q u o t e:
Is Holy Wrath going to have the same model it currently has? As a split damage ability?

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Yeah, we like the split damage because it lets Ret (and Prot if needed) use it in most situations.

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Q u o t e:
Im assuming instead of exorcism you ment holy wrath? Or am i missing something.

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Yeah, Holy Wrath. I edited the post above.

It's possible you'd even use Exorcism if you can afford the cast time -- I used to see bears pull with Hurricane.

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Q u o t e:
Edit: Also will 3 stacks of holy power when using shield of the righteousness roughly equal the amount of threat it did before it got removed or is it changed?

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It will be a hard-hitting button, especially with 3 stacks. I'd guess your highest damage ability.