Will there be some class balancing in 2.4 beyond what has already been stated. I keep hearing that there is supposed to be some pretty significant balances, as there should be. Can we get at least a teaser?

[ Post edited by Nethaera ]

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Q u o t e:
Will there be some class balancing in 2.4 beyond what has already been stated. I keep hearing that there is supposed to be some pretty significant balances, as there should be. Can we get at least a teaser?

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I'm going to be a bit cautious in what I say in this regard. Will there be some changes to classes? Yes, there will be some. We're not rushing into a bunch of class changes for this patch at this point. Consider the patch to be a bit more progressive in nature. As we go along, the developers are going to be keeping a close eye on the results of any changes and additions and then making changes as they feel they are necessary. How many changes occur are going to be based on testing over time. This is why it's important for players to get in and test it as much as possible.

We want to make sure that the changes we are making are viable and practical for continued balance of the classes and don't want to put in too many changes at once and essentially skew the results too much one way or another.

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Hey Nethaera, where do the developers think that mana burn as a skill is something remotely balanced, considering any mana based melee dps class can be shut down in 4-5 seconds?

Does this not seem a tad bit powerful to you?

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Could I ask just one favor of everyone? Could I ask that everyone refrain from asking for nerfs in this thread?

I'm not going to share my opinion on this, since it's not my place here.

Most important is the continued constructive posting by those taking part in the discussion. Share your ideas and thoughts, but please do so without resorting to "x is OP" comments.

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Q u o t e:

Nethaera, what I feel players would be more interested in knowing is whether large-scale balancing is planned to occur in the future, to solve, e.g. the fundamental scaling problems that make all hybrids incredibly broken in PvP post-60:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=4162891658&sid=1

It may not be the kind of problem you want to address in a patch such as this, but just knowing that the devs understand the issues with the class and plan to fix it in the future--even if a change now is not possible--would alleviate players' minds immensely.

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We've been gathering feedback from the class feedback threads at this point. What the results are of that we will have to wait and see. We'll do our best to get everyone more information on that as we go along. Keep in mind, we do have Wrath of the Lich King coming up, in time, that will extend the level cap to 80 which is going to mean more additions and changes to classes. We will also patch between the Sunwell Isle patch and the release of the expansion as we feel it's necessary.

We are still always watching for feedback from everyone and weighing that in where we can.

Please refrain from simply quoting another post as a response. I understand that people use this as a way of saying you agree with it, but it doesn't add to the discussion and only takes up space that others could use to post their own thoughts and ideas.

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Q u o t e:

Care to comment on that post which has been quoted so often, Neth? It was rather constructive and helpful.

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The one in which indicated that what I said was "Poppycock"? (n. Senseless talk; nonsense.) and claims the Developers have no plans on what they want to do?

I have a hard time with acknowledging something that tosses away my words as nonsense and trash. I also don't feel a need to address the portion about the developers not having a clue about what they are doing.

There are plans. I've made that clear in my post. The plan is to proceed with all due care to make sure that the changes we make continue to be in the best interest to the game and the players.

We will continue to take into account constructive feedback and appreciate people that take the time to give it.

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Q u o t e:
Was this a joke or do you really think it takes up space on a message board?

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Unless we expand a thread infinitely and risk the boards going "boom", yes there is such a thing as space on the forums. ;)

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Q u o t e:

I don't think I can believe that. ;P

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I'm beginning to think that gnomes as a component for siege weapons is a good idea. ;p

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Q u o t e:

I see you didn't understand the frustration of the poster who said your comment was "Poppycock", then.

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I understand frustration. :) But, there is a right and a wrong way to convey it. Constructive discussion is based on creating a foundation for positive back and forth conversation. It generally doesn't start off with a wholesale disregard for what someone else has said. That may seem ironic given my prior response, but think about it for a bit. Nothing I say is going to make a difference to that person since they have already disregarded what I said to begin with.

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Q u o t e:


A point on this - constructive conversation requirement #1 is an actual conversation. The class boards for example would be an excellent place for this. I know there are the feedback threads Blizz posted to get info on WotLK. But how many of those contain additonal comments or questions from Blizz other than the first post?

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I answered this in another thread last week, but I wanted to reiterate it here. The reason there is no further feedback from us in those threads is because they weren't created for dialogue, but as a means of collecting specific feedback. If and when we have something we can convey based on those feedback threads, we will. It's been interesting reading them and as I said in that thread, what makes it most interesting is that some classes are more split on what they see as needing improvement while others seem to have more specific focuses.

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Q u o t e:

You did a pretty good job of skirting around the core issue you replied to. The feedback threads were given as an example of a place there could be constructive conversation - the poster you responded to was asking why constructive conversation is so much a one way street on these forums and in general from Blizzard - again, the feedback threads were used as an example, but there are many more conversations started that have been constructive that have largely gone unnoticed and not responded to. This is the overall problem.

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This is quoted direct from the feedback thread original post-

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Q u o t e:
This thread is not intended for discussion purposes and we ask that you please review the below format before presenting your feedback. I

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If people participating in this thread wish to provide feedback on Community Team performance, please feel free to email to wowcmfeedback@blizzard.com. At this point, the discussion is going off topic and this is not the appropriate place for such feedback to be posted. While we may not respond to feedback sent to the email, it is read.

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Q u o t e:


Communication? Yes. Conversation? None at all. Look. Even right now we are trying to have a conversation with Neth about the game and as much as I hate to say it, this thread hasn't taught people any upcoming World of Warcraft knowledge they were unfamiliar with before. The blue responses in this thread are full of contradictions and just a lot of fluff that doesn't give anyone any important information.

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We're putting all of our released information (recent 2.4 announcements) here- Warcraft Weekly - 07/18/08

We've also updated the UnderDev page here- http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/

You can find two other of our posts on PvP changes here-

Diminishing Returns Removed- Diminishing Returns Removed from Honor in 2.4

And

Alterac Valley Improvements in 2.4- Alterac Valley Improvements in 2.4

More is coming with patch 2.4. I've also shared with you a little about what we plan to do in implementing class changes. It may not be what people want to hear, but it's what the current plan is. That plan can change as we feel it's necessary. I just want to make sure the community is as aware as possible about it. I've also been responding to the thread here regularly. Whether the information is helpful to you or not is strictly up to what you're looking for out of it.

I know some others have specific questions about things for their classes, and I'd like to encourage people to please post in their respective class forums so that we can find those discussions, read them, and forward feedback to the Development Team based on those.

We do what we can to post where we can when we have information to share. Sometimes, things just take time and we may not be able to bring anything back for awhile. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, there is a method to the madness both on the Community Team end and on the Developer end. Please don't think we're purposely trying to ruffle anyone's feathers or cause people undue frustration.

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Q u o t e:


Neth, I'm not slamming you or anything. I don't envy your job at all. But, for sanity's sake, if you can't tell people anything other than 'we have plans' and 'soon' just don't say anything. Look how it riles people up.

As much as I'd like to be kept up to date on stuff, I think it's better all around if you guys just release concrete information when it's ready to be released. Ignore the ... impatient people around here.

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Because the converse is people believing we aren't here and still taking in what the community is saying.

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Q u o t e:
Run away... run far away.

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Never. :) But, I appreciate your kind words.

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Q u o t e:
Do not say "WE" when you are clearly not apart of game function.

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I think you're making the mistake of viewing the Community Team as an outside entity. We are a team that is a part of a larger team within Blizzard Entertainment and are authorized to convey messages as official representatives when information is available and based on our own knowledge.