Hello.

Edit: Blizzard have in WoTLK changed the Poleaxe spec, in addition to the old one, gives an extra 5% critical strike damage. Do you think this will solve the issue? Discuss! But if you have time, keep reading :)

This is a long thread, so if you intend to write here, please read this very good post I've done and then post your constructive comments. Keep away from trolling and all sort of crap. I want this thread to become constructive! :) Thank you!

So... To the main point here... What is ruining us?
Resilience

We all know Resilience was introduced to prevent sudden death among all players. Yes, that is a very good thing which have prolonged battles and, perhaps made them more fun.
But the thing is, I deem warriors the one affected most.
Comparing to every other class, they have a way to deal all-out damage whenever they wish to do so by the use of either energy or mana. The problem lies in that we need to crit in order to gain sufficient rage to dish out the damage we want, not to mention that if we have too much rage our main abilities are limited to cool downs on our abilities (comparing to Frost bolt, Pyroblast, Sinister Strike etc who does not have any cool downs whatsoever) . If Warrior just stands there auto hitting for a good while, it will take him at least 10 seconds before one can cast Mortal Strike on the enemy.


How come Resilience has ruined us?

Now my point is, since we Warriors depend on hitting other enemies there is no way we can deal sufficient damage if we miss an attack since it does not provide us any rage. With the introduction of resilience we suffer 12,5% less chance to crit our enemies which damage our rage generation.
Other classes do not need to worry about this issue as their mana or energy is not connected to resilience.
Every other class but Warriors is not affected by resilience in a way that limits their ability to use abilites. Frost bolt, limited by Resilience? No. Sinister Strike, limited by resilience? No. Shadow Bolt, by resilience? No. Moonfire? Fire Ball? No No No! Resilicen has affected our overall ability to use ANY ability at all because we gain less rage!
In this case, we are not only damage-wise "nerfed", but coming to conclusion that we also have other abilities to use like Pummel, Thunder Clap, Demorolising Shout, Battle shout and other abilities clearly shows that we are also Utility "nerfed" too.

Why does a Warrior get to gain more rage against a player with zero resilience compared to a player with high resilience? Why does a Warrior with PvP equipment get to gain more rage against a player doing PvE? Why should the Warrior playing PvE get to gain less rage when fighting against a PvP equipped Warrior? Isn't it enough that the PvE Warrior will do less critical strikes and less damage? Why should his Rage be affected at this?

People will all come with "crit-dependant" abilities that improves their game which is ruined by Resilience. So is it for us too, we have also crit-dependant talents, like Flurry, but this is not the issue I'm talking about. This thread solely tries to write why Resilience is hurting Rage regeneration.
Less critical strike chance decreases our chance to generate 100% more rage. That will decrease our generation in one way (can you imagine doing 12,5% less critical strikes? :)). Then there's the other way too. By doing less damange on critical strikes, the rage gained is lowered even more! Does this sound right, that Warriors ability to use abilities should be limited by a PvP stat, which also does not limit other classes' ability to use abilities?
I strongly believe that this is not intended and needs to get fixed ASAP as this has broken our rage generation badly when playing arena games, or even when meeting ANY class with resilience.

Math to prove this issue:

I have done some calculations using formulas from wowwiki.com and the program Excel which should show that we ARE affected by the damage reduction resilience does! How much affected we are by the amount of less critical strike chances we are to deal, is something I cannot calculate! :)

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Q u o t e:

The increase we get from S2 to S3 is:

154 ATP (using the 80 ATP trinket)
373 resilience <---- Full PvP Warrior
790 armor increase, 406 armor penetration resulting in 384 armor increase.

Now, let’s see how our rage is improved when changing from S2 to S3.

Full s3 warrior equipped with every vindicator items against an equal geared warrior:

49,51% armor reduction
Average damage after armor reduction: 470~ damage
Average damage (critical strike) after armor reduction: 940~ damage
Rage (non-critical strike) 12,7 ~ 13 rage
Rage (critical strike and zero resilience) 25,42 ~ 25 rage
Rage (critical strike and resilience): 23 rage
Damage after crit when resilience comes into effect : 763 damage~

Full s2 warrior equipped with every veteran items against an equal geared warrior:

48,56% armor reduction
Average damage after armor reduction : 445~ damage
Average damage (critical strike) after armor reduction: 956~ damage
Rage (non critical strike): 12,56 rage ~ 13 rage
Rage (critical strike and zero resilience): 24,75 ~25 rage
Rage (critical strike and resilience): 22,46 ~ 22 rage
Damage after critical strike when resilience comes into effect: 722 ~damage

By looking at these numbers: We can clearly see, our damage has increased (are you surprised or?), but at the same our rage gain remains the same if one not to deal critical strikes <--- It is important you understand this. You can clearly see that you will loose 3 rage if Merciless equipped and resilience taken into calculations when dealing a critical strike, however one rage has increased when equipping Vengeful items if dealing critical strike with resilience into effect but still, there is two rage lost.
But you can see somewhat that our rage gain is affected only by doing critical strike damage. Worth to notice is that you also got 12,5% less chance to crit.
I do not know how to calculate that kind of thing, but you will notice that rage generation is damaged if you how to calculate using those 12,5% less chance to deal a critical strike.

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Reserving for any possibly miscalculations! I'm not the very best at math :-)

Solution to this problem:
Do you know how the Enrage mechanism works with resilience? If you know, then you’re on the right way! Basically, if we are hit by any attack that are not showed as a critical strike and you notice Enrage is triggered, it is because the resilience system has reduced a critical strike attack to a normal attack. Even though it was a “normal” attack, the system sees this as the effect of a critical strike and triggers the Enrage. That’s how the Enrage mechanism works with resilience.
Now back to the solution. As resilience have reduced our chance to generate 100% more rage when dealing a critical strike, why not make it work exactly like the Enrage mechanism? The idea behind this is that rage should be generated 100% when dealing a “normal” hit? (Hence the quotes which I mean that a critical strike have been reduced to a normal hit)
This will perhaps fix our issue with rage starvation in arenas as fighting people that have 420(!) resilience are something that doesn’t go unnoticed! And most important since Blizzard also claim there is a "PvE" side of the game; This does at NO way affect PvE oriented part of World of Warcraft as Resilience doesn't exist there.
I'm not asking in any way to give us a chance to increase our chance to deal more critical strikes, just that our rage generation should not be affected by any stats whatsoever.


I’m asking Blizzard to address this issue as I for one who has played Warrior since World of Warcraft came out; this is a plain joke to us Warriors.

Worthy read by Woodhous to all who still don't understand!

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Q u o t e:

The main problem with the discussion in this thread is that about 75% of the people posting that aren't warriors don't understand the link between resilience and rage.

The generic effects of resilience on damage are that all crits deal less damage. This is the same case for every single class.

However Warriors (and druids in bear form admittedly) will generate significantly less rage when attacking a high resilience character than a low resilience character. This is because not only does resilience effect the damage of a warrior's crits (just like any other class) but it also decreases the amount of rage generated by the critical attack.

Thus in a world of warcraft where pretty much every opponent in pvp you face is wearing resilience, warriors suffer alot more than any other class. Yes I exclude druids from this statement as it does not lay them as low as it does warriors, if rage starvation is a problem for a druid he can always switch stances and dps using a different source (energy/mana).

The situation is similar to this hypothetical situation: You are a mage and when you crit with a spell you deal less damage due to resilience, as a side effect you also use more mana on the spell. Therefore this mage attacking a high resilience target with a low resilience target will be 'starved' quicker than if he had attacked a low resilience target.

Hopefully this clears up the confusion a lot of posters in this thread seem to be encountering.

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In order to stop this thread from becoming a "bump" thread, adding more ideas how to change this mechanism or improve certain talents to make up for the loss of rage due to resilience, it would be great.

The concern is noted, though we have no response to it at this time.

While I think the thread (and especially the opening post) covers the topic fairly well already, I've increased the post limit to allow more discussion and feedback. Please try to not go to the next limit with only bumping and signing though. ;-)