Constructive Criticism: The State of Shamans
by Daedren | 11/10/2007 09:52:23 Real feedback - From real Shamans. (version 3 rebirth, continuation and update!) Hi again everyone, This is a continuation of our community thread that started in early 2007. The previous threads have been locked out due to the max number of replies. I'm reserving this first section here for specific feedback on the upcoming patch 2.3. Check back here especially for new updates on what the Shaman community has tested and their feedback on the upcoming changes. ** Please report this thread for sticky - we need the attention! ** A short history on this thread: it was originated after patch 2.1. Many issues were raised, and honestly, I think the feedback helped. The objective of the thread is to be constructive, and provide criticism for the current state of the Shaman class and preemptive feedback on upcoming changes. ============================================================ ================== Burning Questions for the Devs: 1. Are we going to see an anti-CC / escape ability for the Shaman? Or an ability to close the gap for Enhance Shamans? (Desperately needed in PVP) 2. Will we ever have our Totems/Healing Spells/Lightning separated into different schools? (All Nature right now). On the same subject, are Elementalists ever going to get another sustained DPS spell that is not-Nature damage? 3. Is our archaic Totem System ever going to be seriously looked at? 4. Will we ever see our beloved Spirit Wolves? (We'd take them even as a hugely difficult epic quest or whatever!) ========================================================== =================== Patch 2.3 Feedback Note: All results/ testing below is from the PTR. Nothing will be added here unless it has been tested and confirmed. == Elemental Changes == Tested, confirmed, mother approved. We are under the impression that things are needing to be clarified about the upcoming changes. We are hoping that the current PTR builds are just some "test builds" and you really aren't serious about putting these changes live. However, things like this have been known to happen in the past, so this is a pre-emptive strike, so to speak. Alas, I shall now commence with the breakdown of some things we are saying "WTF?" about that are currently on the PTR. I have no doubt that this report will soon be filed into an obscurity that Arthur Dent would himself appreciate as he lie in front of his house before it was demolished. So, if you happen to have a flashlight and don't mind the sing of "Beware of Panthers" on the door, this report is now publicly available! US threads: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2518764444&s id=1 (great read) http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2366689744&s id=1 http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2509264981&s id=1 http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2517896408&s id=1 http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2518906958&s id=1 EU threads(knickers?): http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=1296410573&sid=1 http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=1296190910&sid=1 http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=1296681568&sid=1 http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=1295821373&sid=1 http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=1296191662&sid=1 And now, on with the show! == A Better Coefficient - Say What? == Why is our main Class Mechanic even up for change at the mercy of a Healing spec's grinding pleasure? That's like changing mage spell mechanics for an improvement in Leatherworking and Tailoring. It burns us, yes it does. While we (and I saw WE as the few, the proud, the Elemental) don't mind if our uber-Healbot brothers and sisters can grind a bit better.... ruining a class mechanic to do it? This change is killing our Lightning spell coefficient by 14%. We are going from "best nuke in the game that scales" to "same nuke as everyone else that scales". The problem with this that it's been well known that we have the "best scaling nuke" and we've been balanced appropriately. We trade a good PVP burst potential with horrific survivability, archaic totems and poorly designed class mechanics. Perhaps now, as the reader or juror, you say "But the LO change will compensate for this!" -- and I ask you to keep reading. Solution: Keep the cast times the same and tie (as in append) a .5% decrease somewhere high in the Resto tree. == LIGHTNING OVERLOAD, AKA SIR LIGHTNING WONT PROCS ALOT == The patch notes advertise a proc rate of 20%. I think the core ability probably is 20%, but there are hidden cooldowns and so many rules tied to it that it just doesn't work. The current proc rate on PTR is around 12%. The 3 second hidden cooldown was removed (confirmed). But for whatever reason, it just isn't proccing enough. It can't proc off itself. It's total damage is now -50%. The result? About a total 15% loss in DPS. Solution: Keep the casting times the same. If you must change them, remove the hidden cooldown and make DAMN SURE that the 20% proc rate is an actual 20% proc rate. Remember that LO damage must be EQUAL TO OR GREATER than the coefficient nerf! It's not that hard people! == THE DEATH OF ALL GEAR ELEMENTAL == Now, riddle me this. Would you rather be a Shaman with 700 +spelldamage AND +healing.... or a Shaman with 1500 +healing and +650spelldamage? If you answered the first one, then hello to you person who only PVE's. While I can see a slight advantage in "Elemental Gear" from a pure-PVE perspective (and even that is debatable) there is absolutely NO... NO reason to take Elemental PVP gear. (Actually there is, and that is my NEXT TOPIC!) Solution: Refund ALL Arena points spent on Elemental gear. Other than that, hell yes baby, Hybrid power! == 70% Pushback Resist on our S4 Elemental Set == The new S3 4-Set Elemental Bonus gives a 70% chance to resist pushback on Lightning Bolt. Elementalists have been asking for this since BETA of the original WoW. I know this because I was one of them. Normally, this wouldn't be such a bad thing. However, as all Elementalists will be forced in taking S3 Resto gear to function as a real hybrid, this will basically make it a decision of 300+healing or 70% pushback resistance on Lightning Bolt. Solution: Perhaps replace the awesome ability of "Elemental Devastation" with new "Pushback Resist on LB effect" Conclusions: Current PTR Build: 10-15% loss in total DPS. A horrific nerf for both PVE and PVP. Our burst damage is going down. Our total DPS goes down. == Enhancement Changes == The new Damage Reduction on Shamanistic Rage is nice, but it can be dispelled so easily in PVP that's it is borderline useless. It's only real application is when fighting Warriors, Rogues or Druids 1vs1. == Other Changes == New Hunter Arcane Shot dispels Earthshield, effectively making it useless against them unless in melee range. *END OF PROLOGUE* On with the original thread- [ Post edited by Daedren ] |
by Vaneras | 11/10/2007 13:10:44 This is a nice thread indeed, which I think is worth a blue tag.
A lot of things is going to change for Shamans and class balance overall after 2.3, so I think it is a good idea to hold back a bit on your judgement as you say. We will keep an eye on this thread, because it will be interesting to see what you guys have to say after you have had the chance to test things. |
| by Vaneras | 11/10/2007 15:59:17 Hi Daedren, First of all I would just like to say that no slap-in-face was intended. I merely blue-tagged the thread to let you know that we have noticed it and that we appreciate it's very constructive nature. Great work :-) We will be keeping an eye on this thread, so don't worry about that, but it is still a little too soon to go head on with answering your questions, which are all valid and good questions by the way, because the situation for Shamans will look somewhat different after 2.3. We are not dismissing your questions here, or refusing to address them, so please do not take this the wrong way. All I am saying is that we would like to wait a little until you guys have tested and tried things when the Patch 2.3 is available on the PTRs, and then we will take things from there. I am aware that some of your questions are about things that doesn't really have much to do with patch 2.3, but even though we will not be able to answer those particular questions right now, we would just like to let assure you that we have not forgotten about them and that we are not ignoring you. |
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