Compilation of Retribution Issues v2.1.0

by Cromfel | 07/05/2007 18:06:00
Visit Official Forum View original thread

Cromfel

In response to Kalgan's Retribution posts - Compilation of Retribution Issues v2.1.0

Edit: Added IRC answers from Kalgan & Co.

[Core Problems]

Retribution tree is very close to being viable in 25 man raiding environment. But theres huge problems in small scale gameplay and 5man group activity. Retribution Paladin should have few unique obvious group based support tools to compensate lack of personal damage. Increasing raw damage would create balance issues, hence its not good option. Instead the Retribution Paladin role as support player should be encouraged. Retribution Paladin with low dps output should cover the performance issue by offering great support utiltys while meleeing. Retribution support tools currently scale to almost reasonable state in raiding environment (Not to appealing degree, barely acceptable). But because of that the singleplayer and 5man grouping benefits scale down to nonexsistent. Judgement of Wisdom/Light cant be fixed when they only contain Raid focused beneficial component. If they had group beneficial components, Retribution could turn into more appealing party member instead of just being low damage and low support. Word impractical is key factor in small scale gameplay.

[Talents]

The Retribution tree has no clear role. It is Melee based DPS tree with mediocore Raid supporting toolset. Its partly supposed to be solo/grinding tree, where the tree performs extremely badly due no manaregeneration and PvE survivability additions that the tree would offer. Partly the tree is supposed to be raid tree, with few 25man raid supporting tools, what are extremely lacking in any small scale gameplay. The tree is seen as nothing but Low DPS offering tree by community, as there are no group based buffs that could work instead of making them scale to overpowered in 25man content. Retribution tree completely lacks tree defining unique purpose and toolset. Judgements and Blessings are all available to other specs, and even Sanctity aura as fix to our raid viability is encouragin aurabot instead of encourage meleeing Paladin (See Suggestion for Vengeance).


1) Seal of Command
    Melee tree, but Judgement of Command check on Resist. Instead of melee avoidance. This conflicts and generates itemization problems where 1 specific talent (Seal of Command) would require Melee stats + spellcaster stats, and both melee and spell hit rating.


2) Vindication
    This talent is extremely lacking, and is too good to work in raid purposes. Almost all bosses are immune to this talent. Suggestion: Make it something that debuffs target and scales equally in small and raid scale gameplay. Additional Suggestion: Rework this to be more defensive ability and change with Precision.


3) Improved Seal of the Crusader
    Is considered to be pointless. The effect is extremely minimal to Paladins own performance. And it really should be, like all Retribution talents, group/party supporting tools. Suggestion: 20/40/60% from your Judgement of Crusader damage modifier is applied to all spell damage.


4) Pursuit of Justice
    Another pointless talent. Why turn talent tree slot into ”Do you want to use runspeed enchant?” Nothing unique utlity. Just enchant replacement. Suggestion: Make this "Improved Crusader Aura: 5/10% runspeed increased when Crusader Aura is active"


Your Blessing of Freedom will also increase the target's speed by 5/10% (stacks with other effects). In addition, the speed increase effect of your Crusader's Aura is increased by an additional 5/10% (Making it +30% speed). (Thanks to Clangeddin for this suggestion).

5) Improved Retribution Aura
    Just like all other Paladin tools. This is not scaling at all with your gear. Suggestion: Your Retribution Aura gains 5% damage bonus from your spell damage. And this really should be more of Protection talent than Retribution.


6) Sanctity Aura
    This is basicly self buff aura. Give base aura some group beneficial utility.


7) Improved Sanctity Aura
    Removing the 6% healing bonus basicly annihilated Retribution raid viability, and replacing it with 2% damage modifier was very thin replacement. Suggestion: Consider making this 2/4% (Or read Vengeance notes).


8) Vengeance
    Great talent, but problems of retribution tree lies within the scaling in raiding environment. And the lack of small scale party specific buffs removes our place from small scale gameplay. Suggestion: In 2.1 this stack 3 times. Each stack will increase damage of party members by 1%.


9) Sanctified Judgement
    Insufficient to improve Retribution solo/grind. Suggestion: At current state theres 2 options. Either prolong running oom by changing this talent to effect all offensive abilitys. As current gear and itemization offers 0 (zero) mana per 5sec, this would make the combat duration slightly better and would leave room with average manapool to heal your self once to full health before drinking (To let Paladin use hes own skills). Other option would be to turn this to similiar to Shamanistic Rage, to have 1 cooldown for regaining some mana every now and then.


10) Crusader Strike
    Based on lvl 60 gameplay issues, where Retribution Paladins were considered as lethal enemy, this talent was nerfed from 6sec to 10sec. But, in TBC with lvl 70 stamina and gear the talent scaled extremely poorly, and Paladins dropped back to the bottom when it comes to PvP and being feared enemy. Even when the lvl 60 gameplay would have justified nerf to this talent, the outcome of 10sec CrusaderStrike cooldown rendered Judgement refreshing extremely impractical. Suggestion: Please consider lowering the cooldown to 8sec just for the sake of saving Judgement system.

[ Post edited by Cromfel ]

Retribution Paladin Hideout .:. http://cromfel.battlefield.fi .:.
Downloading "WoW-R.E.T.R.I-is-Single.Player-enGB-patch.nerf"
It's looking Grim...

by Ommra | 11/05/2007 14:35:05
Visit Official Forum View original thread

Ommra

I have been browsing the paladin forum for feedback regarding the retribution tree since that is a burning topic (and has been for quite a while, I recognise quite a few of the points mentioned), and this compilation will help when summarising the top concerns. Thanks a lot Cromfel for the work put in this.

As usual I can't promise a reply, but consider this noticed and forwarded.

by Ommra | 11/05/2007 14:40:55
Visit Official Forum View original thread

Ommra

Q u o t e:
Read halmirs thread on SoC and pass that on, thats the kind of thing we need to see imo. More predictability and vibility in ret

Just read it :p

ZOMG telepathy!

by Ommra | 11/05/2007 14:46:29
Visit Official Forum View original thread

Ommra

Q u o t e:
Reading it and doing something about it are two different things.

I am not the doer, only the messenger.

by Ommra | 29/05/2007 07:46:48
Visit Official Forum View original thread

Ommra

Sorry, I didn't notice until now that this thread had exceeded the post limit. I increased it now so that you can keep discussing.

Edit: I removed your spam posts as well, please discuss instead of counting number of posts ;)

by Ommra | 27/06/2007 09:51:40
Visit Official Forum View original thread

Ommra

Hello again, I just wanted to let you know that the developers have taken part of your suggestions, and are looking into improving the retribution paladin spec. You can probably expect something along the line of more sustained DPS in a raid and more raid utility, but we are not ready to reveal any details. This is still work in progress, so please be patient :)

Bump! Recently Bumped Threads

 

Most Viewed Most Viewed

 

Blizzard Announcement Recent Blizzard Announcements

 

We suggest